Interview with Lieutenant Rusty Rhoads - Army Reserve - Part Two

Inside Iraq - What is the age range of the enemy? Have you heard of any women taking up arms against the Coalition?

Lt. Rhoads - I don't know what the average age range is. Of the times I was personally attacked in Iraq, I was only able to see my enemy once and I was more concerned about keeping my soldiers alive than taking a census of who was shooting at us. All the other times I was attacked were through indirect methods such as mortar fire and remote detonated bombs.

I have never heard of women taking up arms against the Coalition. It goes against the culture there.

Inside Iraq - Opponents of the war hold up Abu-Ghuraib as an example of the US' oppression against the Iraqi people. What is the prevailing attitude and treatment you observed toward the citizenry there?

Lt. Rhoads - Watch the video "Voices of Iraq." This video pretty much sums up my experience. The Iraqi people, with the exception of some of the older citizens, have only ever known oppression and violence in their lives and Abu Ghuraib does not fit their definition of either. To them the men were not tortured, they were humiliated. I don't think the average Iraqi citizen gave much passing thought to what happened at Abu Ghuraib. The ones who did were angry, but at the same time laughed it off as being absurd as an example of oppression. I think Americans (me included) were more ashamed of what happened there than the Iraqis were outraged. It was a stupid thing and it gave our enemies propaganda to use against us. Now, the real horror of Abu Ghuraib (that you didn't see in the media) was what happened afterwards. Most people know that the prisoners were released when the scandal broke, but what they don't know is that the women who were in the prison and witnessed what happened were then murdered because they saw men being humiliated. I learned this through an Iraqi woman whom I had lengthy discussions with. What the soldiers did at Abu Ghuraib was disgraceful and damaged our country, but the killing the women afterward was unforgivable.

Inside Iraq - Some of our leaders are asking that troops be pulled from Iraq as soon as possible. What effect do you think that would have on Iraq and its people?

Lt. Rhoads - I need to preface my answer to this question with a disclaimer. I am not a foreign policy expert; I am a soldier and a citizen. My answer is based completely on my experience there and nothing more. I would not want people who read this to think that I know any more than that.

My answer to your question depends on how you define "as soon as possible." If it means as soon as is physically possible, i.e. tomorrow, it would devastate the country. For better or worse we are currently the last line of protection for the Iraqi people. When that changes, we can pull troops. To do otherwise will set America back and create an entire country of people (Iraq) who hate us for leaving them in their time of need. The first President Bush demonstrated this when he encouraged the Shiites of southern Iraq to rise up against Saddam and then did nothing to help them. Many of those people still have hard feelings toward the U.S. because of that. Wouldn't you? Pulling out now would result in far more deaths than the country is now seeing as all out civil war would erupt and different factions clamored for power. I think it would result in a country very hostile to the United States and completely defeat our original goal of ousting Saddam Hussein.

My personal opinion is that the "leaders" calling for immediate withdrawal from Iraq know that it isn't a feasible option. They can safely sit back and say it because they know it isn't going to happen. They say it only because they want to take pot shots at President Bush. I think it's pretty irresponsible on their part. It's fine to disagree, but they carry it too far and damage our country in their effort to gain political advantage.

A good example might be Kuwait to compare it with. I don't think most people know that we never left Kuwait after Desert Storm. I sure didn't until I got there. There are permanent U.S. military bases in Kuwait that have been maintained since that time. We will definitely see a similar situation in Iraq. For that matter look at all of the wars of the 20th Century. Vietnam is the only place I can think of where the U.S. has fought a war and does not still have a military presence. We are still in Korea, Japan and Germany among others. Back to the Kuwait issue; I got the distinct impression that the Kuwaitis don't particularly care for our presence there but they sure don't want us to leave because we are their body guards from other countries in the region. As a result, they try to keep us "out of sight, out of mind" by restricting American military movements and not allowing service members to interact with their society for anything other than official business.

Inside Iraq - How often did you interact with the Iraqi people, any special relationships formed while there? Do you still keep in tough with any Iraqis?

Lt. Rhoads - I interacted with a few Iraqis on a daily basis. These were the people who I would hire to come on our camp and do labor for us so we could free up manpower for missions and people I would buy office supplies and furniture from. I got "out on the town" twice a month or so depending on mission requirements. Unless it was the middle of the night, there were always plenty of Iraqis, especially children, who would approach us because they were curious about what we were doing or they were looking for a handout. I always liked interacting with them because I always learned a lot. Like I said, I met a lot of children, but I also met a lot of police officers, Iraqi National Guard recruits and average "Joes." The ones who came around were always friendly.

Abbas was murdered a few months after I arrived. I had gotten to know him pretty well. When that happened, I didn't allow myself to befriend any more of the locals because I didn't want to feel that loss again. With that said, I was friendly to anyone who would be friendly with me and I would talk to anyone who was willing to talk with me. Most of the people I interacted with did not speak very good, if any, English and I don't speak any Arabic, so that made for conversations comprised of a lot of broken sentences, body language and gestures to communicate. It can be tough to convey much more than the simplest ideas under those circumstances. I don't stay in touch with any of the Iraqis I met for this reason, it would be too hard.

Inside Iraq - What is your overall impression of the Iraqi people? What do you see in the near future for them?

Lt. Rhoads - My impression of the Iraqi people is that they are just like you and I; people. They have the same hopes, dreams, needs, wants and desires. One area where they differ is that they don't have a grasp of what freedom means. They don't know that they have the opportunity to stand up for themselves and do what is right. They are terrified (sometimes with good reason) that somebody is going to come into their house in the middle of the night and murder their family because they stood up for what they believe. Up until a few months ago, an election meant that the people in power would decide what was best for them and the voting was a sham. The January election was the first time that they were allowed to voice their individual opinions in several generations. When you listen to the average Iraqi speak and you have a good interpreter, you will laugh at the similarities between Iraqis and Americans. Again, watch the video "Voices of Iraq." That is the closest I have seen in any media outlet to the truth.

With all that said, their culture is vastly different from ours. It's difficult for us to understand their customs, although they quickly adapt to ours. The way it was explained to me is their culture is made up of three components; religious law, civic law and tribal law. The three quite often conflict with each other. To the best of my understanding, it seems to me that most of the fanaticism comes from tribal customs and not necessarily Islam. I think over the centuries tribal customs in some areas have twisted Islam into something that it is not. Just like the Christian Bible, the Koran leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Just like Christianity, the Muslim religion has been twisted and abused by those seeking power. I would hope that as Iraq moves toward the future that the tribal customs will start to fade out of the picture.

The woman I mentioned earlier whom I had lengthy discussions with put it best. She was a modern educated Iraqi woman with a degree in chemistry. When I asked her how we can ever put our differences aside and better understand each other, her reply was something like this: When you see an Iraqi, you see a potential terrorist. When I see an American soldier, I see a potential abuser such as the soldiers at Abu Ghuraib. We both have to learn to look beyond that and establish a level of trust at individual levels before we can get along in harmony. As individuals, that is pretty easy to do, as societies and cultures, that is not so easy to do. It will be the end result of many individuals learning to trust each other that will eventually lead to peace and cooperation. Success will not come from politicians and religious leaders.

It is difficult for American soldiers to put these differences aside. Their first priority is in keeping themselves and their comrades safe and alive. This is in direct conflict with the trust issue. Other than the few soldiers who are disgruntled simply because they are in Iraq, I think most of them understand this at some level. However, doing something about it is the hard part. The American military is doing its best to educate service members about the culture, but it is up to the individual to actually put a foot forward and try to truly understand it. On the flip side, I think most Iraqis have figured out that American service members don't want to cause them harm. It's a difficult situation because it is so easy for the simplest things to become lost in translation.

I see the country of Iraq as one with a huge potential. It is poised to become the dominant country in the Middle East. It is made up of a people that are largely secular and willing to change. It has vast resources with a modern mindset. My hope is that Iraq will emerge as a model for other Middle Eastern countries to emulate. It is going to take a lot of time before the country gets to that point. This is a country that has literally been at war since Saddam invaded Iran in 1980. The end result is a lot of families without fathers, mothers working in a society that doesn't necessarily accept them in the work force, children who drop out of school to work so the family can survive and as a result, very high illiteracy rates. There are millions of young men in that country who have no direction or sense of purpose. They become easy fodder for the Islamic extremists. The path to prosperity in Iraq lies number one in security and number two in education.

I do believe that some form of democracy will emerge, but I don't think it will take on a form that we are necessarily going to recognize. The people there are still learning what freedom means and during this time they are very vulnerable to external influences, many of which are not in the best interests of the United States.

Inside Iraq - If you could talk to every US citizen, what would you like him or her to know about Iraq or this war?

Everything contained in my answers to the first eight questions.   I guess if I was to add anything it would be the following: First and foremost, it was worth it.   Second, be patient.   Nothing worth doing is ever easy.   Third, we must hold the course until the Iraqis can take care of themselves.

View the full interview, info and prep HERE.

Contact Rusty at rusty.rhoads@us.army.mil